meta recs + the privilege to dismiss

[xanphibian]

chopchica:

So yes, I get more than enough of this in my daily life, and my question is, in fandom – where everybody is willing to discuss (the very valid issues of) Martha the maid, female characters being hated and ignored because they’re female and not male, het sex being thought of as gross and needing specific warnings, miscegenation, whether 'playing gay' is in any way analogous to blackface, and a billion other things about the daily homophobia/sexism/racism that exists on television, in movies, in books, in bands, and everywhere else - why have I yet to see any of these issues about Judaism and anti-Semitism addressed? ( here )

technosage: (in response to chopchica)

Yet...when someone clearly is being anti-Semitic, and since I'm Jewish and vitriolic on the subject of anti-Semitism, I ought to call them on it. Learn some tools for saying "this conversation isn't about anti-Semitism, and this isn't the place to have this conversation, but what you've said is incredibly offensive to me. I'd like to engage you about it somewhere else."

I mean, I could just say that, right? But... I don't. And it's not for fear of co-opting the narrative. It's because...

It's because it's a fuckton harder to rock the boat on my own behalf than on that of someone else. It's much harder to hear "wtf are you whining about, you people have all the money and all the education?" than it is to hear "will you stop talking about color already? dude, you're harshing my squee." ( here )

kita0610: (also in response to chopchica)

Try and come up with the last full on Jewish show. Not a "very special Channukah with the Rug Rats." I mean a show where the leading man/woman/children etc. were Jewish and it was a big part of their lives and it *mattered* to the plot.

I'll wait.

Just because you do not see racism does not mean there isn't racism inherent in the system. ( here )

I can't rec these posts enough.

I was writing this up and talking to friends, and I had the sudden horrible thought that, hey, if my closest friends and I hadn't been discussing Judaism or Jewishness lately, or if my best friends weren't Jewish, or if I hadn't been reading and doing a lot of personal questioning about what it all means to me that I could very likely brush it off as not applicable to me or anyone I know.

I'd have read the first few lines, thought 'Antisemitism, that doesn't have anything to do with me. I'm neither a Jew nor a skinhead.' I might even have read the comments chopchica linked to and thought 'That's not so bad. Wow, she's so lol sensitive and raising a ruckus for nothing.'

But still, I know there are people who may skim past the posts because it makes them uncomfortable or because they think it doesn't apply to them or because they don't see what the big deal is. They don't have to think about it because that is their privilege.

It's easy to be blind to 'invisible' bigotry or racism. If someone isn't being killed or called racial epithets, it is a very easy thing to ignore it -- if you're not part of the oppressed group.

I have done and said stupid, racist things because of privilege and blindness. I laughed at some of the fandom race discussions. I let comments go because I didn't see what the big deal was. I skimmed or ignored posts about ethnic identity or racism in the media. I thought everyone talking about it was just being too sensitive, or actively searching for things to bitch about because they liked to cause trouble. But, hey, I'd get all bent out of whack and confused if someone had the nerve to defriend me or tell me I was being racist or dismissive or a stupid white chick.

I don't think I can apologize for any of that without it coming off as disingenuous. Lip service isn't what I'm aiming for here. But I was wrong.

I'm just saying -- people have privilege. White privilege is what we hear about the most, but there are other kinds of privilege, too, and it's not just getting a job or not being stopped by the police. If you're not transgendered, you can ignore the health care issues of trans people. If you're not Native American, you can ignore the governmental issues of Native Americans. If you're not mentally disabled (or related to someone who is), you can ignore when someone uses the word 'retard'. Or use it yourself and laugh about it.

If you're not a part of this group you can ignore this group's issues.

Most people don't think 'I am Privileged, therefore I don't have to examine this.' Having privilege means you don't have to think of it that way. It means you can dismiss something as 'not a big deal' or not affecting you. Your brain can do a weird disconnection whenever you see the words 'race issues'. Or someone can make a valid complaint about Jewish stereotypes and you can think 'why does it matter if I say Jews have money? it's not even negative!' Or you can compare or weigh oppression and say 'well, I have to deal with a lot worse than that, so it doesn't matter'.

What I like about this recent discussion is that there are a lot of people going 'I never thought about that. This makes me uncomfortable, but now I will be much more likely to see instances of Antisemitism when they occur'. And that is always a good thing. Looking at what I've been able to ignore (intentionally or not) gives me a horrible, skeevy feeling. It makes me uncomfortable to talk about and confront it. It's hard. But when I think about a friend getting hurt, offended, or angry because of an offhand remark some idiot made, and I think about how hurt, offended, or angry I have made people in the past, and I think of all the people who deal with these things all the time, I can't not do something (even if the 'something' is simply questioning my own assumptions) just because it's difficult.

Comments

[technosage.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for this. It's a beautiful and thoughtful post, and I appreciate it.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[gloss]

They don't have to think about it because that is their privilege.
This is a wonderful post, Greenie, and I wish I was there in person to hug and applaud you. (Somehow, hypothetically, I'd have four arms or something, so I could do it simultaneously. ;)) Your mind is such a beautiful thing, just like your heart.

*clings*

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

Gah, you make me blush. *hides*

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

<3333333333333333

There aren't enough threes in the world.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

*smooch*

TV shows with Jewish families

[valkyrie4clex.livejournal.com]

There were at least 2 shows that i remeber. Someone always mentioned BROOKLYN BRIDGE - pretty good show but it didn't last long. There was also a series in 2001-2002- -2 seasons - called STATE OF GRACE - I liked it a lot - it was like a buddy show with the protagonists being two young girls instead of the typical boy buddies. One girl was Jewish and one was Catholic - one was from a born in the south family,the other girl's family had moved there to open a factory. It was very good tv- interesting characters and situations.

Re: TV shows with Jewish families

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

Hi! The passage above is not actually something I said, but I was quoting from Kita's post. Did you mean to comment to her?

Re: TV shows with Jewish families

[valkyrie4clex.livejournal.com]

yes i did- sorry

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

You are made of love. I wish the world was filled with Green.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

&hearts Thank you.

[ubiquirk.livejournal.com]

The inability of people to see hegemonic forces in place is the biggest part of the power hegemony wields - they just think things 'are the way they are.' White privilege, male privilege, heteronormativity - it's all so easy to perpetuate and buy into because we're bombarded with it constantly. Thank you for being a voice that speaks back.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

I had to look up 'hegemonic'. *facepalm*

Thank you!

[gloss]

It's a great word! :D

[ubiquirk.livejournal.com]

Heh. And I just realized that I was using it in terms of cultural hegemony, which most dictionaries won't have, so facepalm for me too.

The idea that the dominant cultural group subtlety controls the thoughts of all via indoctrination, which can take the form of mass media and popular culture. [E.g., showing that successful people are predominantly white men on TV brainwashes everyone into thinking that's the way it's supposed to be and makes them less likely to speak out.]

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

I found it! But thank you for explaining.

I think it's interesting to look at who is portrayed in the media and the settings they are in. To someone who doesn't live in LA, for example, from watching certain programs they may get the impression that there isn't a Latino population at all! Before getting online, my idea of the racial and ethnic populations of large American cities was very much influenced by what I saw on television. Add to that characters with Jewish last names not being, er, very Jewish, I continued to be completely ignorant of a lot of things. I'm notoriously slow on the uptake, but it's so embarrassing to go 'oh, friend I have known five years, your last name is Jewish!' in a sort of light bulb moment that leaves me looking like a moron. :D (or having someone say to me, 'you know I'm Jewish, right?') *cough*

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

:) I don't know if I've told you how much I've enjoyed your Jewish posts, other than to say thank you, but I've Really. Really. enjoyed them. So thanks right back.

[minim_calibre]

This is why I adore you, hon.

And, yeah. Just, yeah.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

:) Thank you, Min.

[melusinahp.livejournal.com]

In the politically activated communities in which I've been involved, Anti-semitism is the last thing on people's minds. The Jews are branded as evil oppressors and god forbid any of us should try to discuss the matter. On one mama board I belonged to we set up a section for Jewish mamas (there were already sections for mamas of colour, gay mamas, mamas of special needs kids, etc) and it was instantly torn down by someone who couldn't handle the idea.

Anti-semitism is one of the more acceptable forms of bigotry in all walks of life, from what I've seen.

So, thank you for this. :D

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

Heh, that reminds me of my own mama board stories. I was politely asked to leave a board for moms of developmentally delayed children (after being there for a while and getting to know people) because my child wasn't 'getting better' and was developmentally disabled. The issues were exactly the same, nothing had changed, but still I was pushed out because, I dunno, they were afraid I'd transmit retardation through the internet to their children or something. It was really kind of batshit, and it was the first time I encountered discrimination because of my daughter. Pretty mild compared to the stuff we go through now that she's older, but at the time it was a shock.

And yeah, you're right about the 'acceptable form of bigotry'. I've seen some similar comments in these posts. I just don't get it, honestly. I have such huge respect for Jewish culture and history, and the way they've kept it over the centuries -- it's so strong, amazing, and rich, and I'm completely in awe at times when I think about how very difficult it must have been to hold on to that through everything. It makes me so sad (and sometimes really angry) to see that dismissed or ridiculed or outright hated. It's impossible for me to speculate what the main reason is, since there are religious, cultural, class, and ethnicity/race issues all rolled up together in what it means to be a Jew, or how others view Jews as a whole or as individuals, but it's all really sleazy and frustrating.

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

You are awesome, love.

And the commentor above who says it's 'acceptable'? It is. Because it unites all Christians, regardless of skin color or sexual persuasion. And yes, of course, there are plenty of non-Christians around too, but when you look at sheer numbers... there aren't a lot of Jews. It used to be 6% of the US population, but I think that's dropped. There are a lot more Christians who have been raised by birth to think that Jews are inhuman at very best, and since they've never met one, never heard of one being kept out of a job, or poor and living on the streets, then it's okay to make fun of them. They're rich aren't they?

My mother grew up in a place where people told her to her face that Hitler was right and the US Government was a fool for trying to stop him. It wasn't that long ago, and it's still sometimes scary as hell to visit where my Grandparents live. The neighborhood has changed a lot, but not totally.

But you are awesome.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

You are awesome and I love you.

[cryptoxin.livejournal.com]

Great links, terrific post!

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[rainbow.livejournal.com]

i peeked back to see what else you have posted adn sawthis and i am SO happy that you along chopchica and friends have been posting.

that is soemthing that really bothered me in the anti-racism posts i saw a few weeks ago on friends friends, that they were all talking about racism as black vs white and just NO. there are way too many ppl who deal with racism every day of their life and not all of them fit in black vs white. skin color is just an easy way to define other, but it does not stop ppl who want to believe they are better than group x. and that does not mean that i think ppl of color do not deal wtih racism. i KNOW they do. but so do other ppl. racism can be about the color of your skin or where your forebears came from or what language you grew up speaking or what country you were born in or the shape of your eyes or face or how you dress or hundreds of other things ppl use to define us vs them. to deny that it is racism if it doesnt affect one group... that seems like just another way to practice racism to me, really.

maybe my background is just funky from growing up in the sf bay area in the 60s in an area with lots of kids from very different backgrounds who all played together at each others homes, then going to a much less mixed jr high and highschool in different neighborhoods where suddenly you wren't supposed to be friends with hispanic kids or asian kids or jewish kids or black kids or immigrant kids with accents, including the ones with blond hair and blue eyes. and the whole idea of that is just crazy and confusing to me. and it is just as confusing to me that so many ppl dont SEE behaviors around them. how can you not see the hypocrisy when someone is rude about a non-christian not saying merry christmas? how can you not speak up when somebody talks about any ppl like they are less than human for being how goddess made them?

it really confuses me too that isntead of "well, person a deals with prejudice due to y, so maybe sie can get what i mean about the prejudice i deal with in my life due to z" that there seems to be more "well, you don't understand how it is for ME because it's different". maybe cause i think everybody is different and has different life experiences that overlap in places and dont in others. NOBODY can EVER understand how it is exactly for another person, but with listening and compassion and making comparisons to stuff in our own life and trying and trying some more we can empathize and understand a lot if we try, i think.

what i want for solstice this year is for everyone i love, know, or will get to know, and everybody else besides, to learn to listen with their heart open, to honor each others experiences, to accept and love and empathize with each other, to see that different is only different, it's not bad, and that we can all love and honor and respect and help each other.

and maybe a pony...

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

what i want for solstice this year is for everyone i love, know, or will get to know, and everybody else besides, to learn to listen with their heart open, to honor each others experiences, to accept and love and empathize with each other, to see that different is only different, it's not bad, and that we can all love and honor and respect and help each other.


As they say, amen. (Or in other words, I totally agree with your comment, and almost wish I'd written it, except that you wrote it better than I would have.)

(And with thanks to xanphibian for her post.)

[rainbow.livejournal.com]

oh, wow, thank you very much. i have multiple brain injuries and never feel like i can say things good, and your words mean more to me than i know how to express. THANK YOU!! :) :) :)

carys

[hossgal.livejournal.com]

it really confuses me too that isntead of "well, person a deals with prejudice due to y, so maybe sie can get what i mean about the prejudice i deal with in my life due to z" that there seems to be more "well, you don't understand how it is for ME because it's different". maybe cause i think everybody is different and has different life experiences that overlap in places and dont in others. NOBODY can EVER understand how it is exactly for another person, but with listening and compassion and making comparisons to stuff in our own life and trying and trying some more we can empathize and understand a lot if we try, i think.

YES. THIS.

Thank you

- hossgal

[cynaravurzyn.livejournal.com]

Hi Greenie.

I've had an interesting read with the links and then comments here. Now, I'd like to mention something about white privilege...

It's 'amusing' when a presumptively middle-class person of whiteness uses "white privilege" as a way of slamming down questions of socio-economic issues. (This was a member of a department of education, a multiculturalism 'expert'.) As if only visible minority statuses have 'permission' to their contestation.

Clearly, there's a whole nest of issues there. And yes, being white does leave open certain things. I'm not followed in stores, I've never been driving while black. Yet...

Once I was in the upscale part of a large city's downtown, and the person I was milling about with decided browsing was better than windowshopping. I didn't think it was a good idea, considering how I was dressed. A bit of deconstruction was applied to the result that I and my economic betters slumming appeared much the same.

I mention this because otherness is relative, and it doesn't have to be visible to exist. And yes, I usually point out other 'isms' instead of addressing 'elitism'.

[latxcvi.livejournal.com]

*Applauds*

This is actually the post I've wanted to make time and time again when I've watched fandom's discussions of race/racial politics unfold, but you've said it all so eloquently and persuasively that I could just link to it and go "What she said."

Thank you. Just ... thank you.

Do you mind if I link to this and point people this way? I'll understand if you do.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

No, I don't mind at all. :)